As the 2012 presidential election draw closer, several questions of spiritual importance have led to partisan political discussion. However the subject of homosexuality and same-sex marriage has proved to be an especially divisive subject.
While the majority of Americans (51 percent) share the conservative Christian view that abortion is morally wrong according to a 2011 Gallup poll, the majority of Americans (56 percent) disagree with conservative Christians on the subject of same-sex marriage in a different 2011 Gallup poll.
Christian groups and leaders who publicly disagree with the majority on same-sex marriage have expressed that their stance is based on healthy families and biblical values rather than hate.
But how does the Christian message resonate with homosexuals? Two men –one an openly-gay Christian and the other an ex-gay Christian— have shared their personal perspectives about this subject with the Christian Post.
This is a discussion, not a debate. Comments deemed to be inflammatory rather than constructive will be deleted. Readers’ discretion is advised.
I have had it with the ex-gay liars, homophobic "Christians" and the entire negative attitude towards gay people. I have decided to clean house. I am not going to surround myself with a bunch of hypocritical liars just to get into some "Christian Clique" called "the Church." I have been an outsider my whole life, why did I suddenly think after becoming a Christian that things would be different? Shame on me for being so stupid.
I have noticed most right wing and conservative people can only talk about three things and are limited to those three things: sin, judgment, and hell. They know nothing else! God help the liberal Christian out there who wants more than rhetoric of the pit, but wants Jesus the Christ. I find it fascinating how these gay-hating bigots can't answer a simple question, but neither can a few of my friends like Matt Moore on here can't either. If gay isn't a choice, how can it be a sin? If gay is a sin, isn't all sinning a choice?
I love how these intellectual cowards quote from every part of scripture, but don't know a thing about what they are talking about and they don't understand that context is everything.
I think this is a turning point for me because I have had it with this. Do you know what really scares me, the fact that I hate these people so much and it does even bother me. In fact, there is a part of me that is sort of proud of it! Wow. What a fall from grace for me, but whatever. You do what you have to do. If I have to hate these Pharisee-minded bigots to get up in the morning, that is what I will do.
Christians always talk about love this and love that, but what about hate? I mean, what if you hate something that is wrong or evil, like the ex-gays brainwashing innocent homosexuals into the thrall of emotional and psychological bondage? What if you hate a person, you actually hate the person. You hate how they act, you hate what they say, you hate how they dress, you hate the very essence of who and what they are about and what they stand for. You despise their soul. Well, that's where I am at with "conservative" so called "Christians". It is amazing how conservative they are with their love, but when it comes to hate, they are the most liberal ones out there.
The last 9 years of my life from age 23 to 32 have been outrageous. What I don't understand is why God even bothered to save me at all? It's not like I am a good person or a saint or something. On the issue of sin, it is important to be sin-conscious, that is aware of the fact that you sin and that you are a sinner, but to be sin-obsessed is the province of the "conservative Christians." The only thing good about them is the fact that God and Jesus love them. I don’t! This is also fascinating. How is it that heterosexuals have no idea what it is like to be homosexual/gay, but they seem to know more about the subject than we gays do! That is astounding! God lives, Jesus is the savior of the human race and I am a homosexual Christian who has had it this argument.
What is the crime of the homosexual people? Loving another human being. That is the crime, but the worst criminals are the haters who go around killing and tormenting gay people because it’s fun or because it makes them feel better about themselves. Still, I am not shocked, as I have always said, people are fundamentally evil. Not just a little evil, but fundamentally evil.
I love how "Christians" I meet online are the first ones to say "I love you." How can you honestly love me when you 1.) just met me. 2.) don't know anything about me 3.) you say gay is sinful/evil/wrong to my face knowing that is a part of who and what I am and that it pisses me off. Does that sound like love to you? I had a "Christian" guy tell me that "he loved me" so much, that is why he was telling me about gay being sinful and that I won’t be going to the kingdom of heaven, and instead I’ll be in hell. Well said! With that kind of love, I would rather be hated! Open hate is better than shallow love! At least the Westboro Baptist Church comes right out with it, but these cowardly "Christians" hide behind the Bible and love to talk about my sins.
I wish they were as concerned with their own sins as they are with mine. Ah, people who "don’t live the gay lifestyle" are celebrated as heroes in the "Christian" world, yet because I love another human being with everything in my soul and he happens to be of the same gender, I am evil! I love it!
The thing is that heterosexuals don't understand that to be gay means often times you have to lie, deceive, and manipulate just to get by. Yes! It is true. If you ask honest gay people they will tell you that they have had to lie to pass at some time in their lives, in fact, I met a man who not only had kids, but was married to a woman, and now he’s a "conservative". It is amazing how conservatives seem to have no love or honor at all, personally I am astounded that the left in America hasn't dominated already with this type of political posturing that they right engages in. To wrap up my rant, I want to ask what is the crime of the homosexual people? Loving another human being.
"I have had it with the ex-gay liars, homophobic "Christians" and the entire negative attitude towards gay people."
I will not deny the fact that many people have exhibited extreme hateful behavior toward homosexuals in the name of Christ. Unfortunately, these are the people that get most of the media coverage while the loving, yet truthful, Christian approach toward homosexuals often goes unnoticed.
The problem is that even the caring approach many Christians, such as myself, take when talking to those in the homosexual lifestyle is often perceived as hateful and intolerant because it does not line up with their beliefs. I am a Christian who struggles with homosexual thoughts so I of all people understand the internal battle is that is waged within the gay person. The world is telling people to accept their homosexual feelings as a God-given gift, while the Church is telling them that they must repent from homosexuality and turn to Christ for forgiveness and redemption just like the rest of mankind is called to do.
"Most right wing and conservative people [Christians] can only talk about three things and are limited to those three things: sin, judgment, and hell. They know nothing else!"
As far as Christians only talking about sin, judgment and hell, the addressing of these issues is a prerequisite to understanding why you need Jesus. Often people are not trying to condemn a gay person, but rather trying to get them to see that they are already condemned along with the rest of humanity and need to cling to the Cross of Christ.
You can't understand the good news unless you first understand the bad news. The bad news is that every human being is fallen, broken and incapable of earning good standing with God. Our hearts are corrupt, along with our thoughts and our feelings. We see God, the world and yes, even sex, in a perverted way because of our separation from God. The good news is that Jesus came to absorb the condemnation that we deserve in order that we could be reconciled to God through Him and be shaped into the people that God wants us to be.
"If gay isn't a choice, how can it be a sin?"
This is a very valid question that is often ignored because the average American Christian has not gained a sound biblical understanding of human depravity and the pulpit is largely to blame for that. We have avoided the truths that hit us hard while joyously proclaiming only the truths that make us feel good about ourselves. If we only understood our inborn nature, we would not need to be constantly immersed in repetitive "feel good" sermons because our joy would be abundantly overflowing because of the realization of the enormity of what Christ has done for such ill-deserving, ungrateful creatures such as ourselves.
The truth is that each and every human being is radically depraved, bent toward sin and evil, and destined to hell without the intervention of Jesus Christ. Sin is not just something you do, it's who you are. Our hearts, thoughts and feelings are all twisted and grotesquely corrupted and that brokenness is where things like homosexual desires come from. The Bible is clear that homosexual behavior is sin, along with adultery, fornication, incest and bestiality. A man doesn't "choose" to have an adulterous thought come into his mind, but is that grounds for him to be justified in acting out on it? By no means! He is called to turn away from that evil desire, just as the person who is attracted to the same sex is called to turn away from that evil desire. All people are called to turn from these evil desires, regardless of what specific one they struggle with.
"It's amazing to me how conservative they [Bible-believing Christians] are when it comes to their love, but when it comes to hate, they are the most liberal ones out there."
It's quite bewildering to me that although the gay community vastly promotes tolerance, they are quite intolerant when it comes to Christian beliefs. When a Christian tells a homosexual that their lifestyle is not right in the eyes of God and they need to turn to Jesus, they are not being hateful. In all actuality, they are being quite loving. If a parent saw their child running around in the street, would they be hateful for snatching them out of the street before they get hit by a car? Of course, not. Any good parent, or even stranger walking by, would not allow a child ignorantly putting themselves in danger to remain in that situation. Likewise, the Christian sees that the reality of what blatant rejection of God results in; an eternity in Hell. Therefore they cannot keep silent while watching their friends, family and colleagues ignorantly march toward eternal death.
"People who ‘don't live the gay lifestyle’ are celebrated as heroes in the "Christian" world, yet because I love another human being with everything in my soul and he happens to be of the same gender, I am evil!?"
People who have same-sex desires but don't act out on them, such as myself, are not "heroes" in the Christian world. We are recipients of mind-blowing grace. We truly understand what it means to deny yourself daily, pick up your cross and follow Jesus Christ. And no matter how hard it may be or how unfair it may feel at times, we know beyond the shadow of a doubt that our suffering is nothing to be compared with the suffering that Jesus Christ unfairly endured. As I addressed earlier, the human heart is corrupted. Our ideas of "love" can be far from what love really is. The Word of God is clear that sexual relationships between two people of the same gender are "burning passions" or lust, not love.
God's will is for us all, regardless of sexual preference, to forsake our sin and believe in Jesus...
Not the "Jesus" that condones your sin.
Not the "Jesus" that wants you to have your best life now.
Not the "Jesus" who makes all your earthly dreams come true.
Believe in the real Jesus.
Believe in the true Jesus.
Believe in the Jesus of the Scriptures.